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Mental Health recovery is a lifelong endeavour and the moment we think it ok to not be ok then we are not focusing on what matters in mental health. This episode celebrates mental health recovery and has a truly awesome insight. 

Join Dr Rachel for this Q&A to discover why recovery in mental health matters. This episode gives some truly awesome moments of insight into what works in mental health recovery, as well as claiming ownership and intellectual property over journals of kindness. Manny is a truly inspiring and gritty individual who has a great story to tell and who is someone that has overcome much adversity to become a great mental health first aider and mentor. Remember it is NOT ok to be not ok. 

Key Insights From This Episode: 

  • Some of the most successful people are successful because they make a decision in a second, but they know that no matter what the decision is, it can sort out what goes wrong after it. – Dr Rachel 
  • Feeling there was no way, feeling very claustrophobic and trapped. I’d liken it to being in a dark tunnel without being able to see the way out. I know a lot of people use that analogy with depression. – Manny 
  • One of the main things that we contend with today, because it’s around us all the time, is comparison. And worse than comparison is judgment. And worse than judgment is self-judgment. – Dr Rachel 
  • I try and realise when I’m not showing kindness. I can see it sometimes when I do gratitude journalling. I keep a diary, so I can see that the days when I’m not being kind to myself, and I can spot it now when I never could before. – Manny 

About Our Guests: 

Manny Aujla 

‘I thoroughly enjoyed being a guest on The (UN)Broken Podcast. Rach instantly made me feel at ease and comfortable enough to share my experiences – the conversation flowed very naturally and it was like having a chat with a good friend.’ 

About Our Host 

Dr Rachel Taylor  

Dr Rachel Taylor is a neuroscientist with decades of experience exploring, discovering and solving everyday challenges faced by many, as well as listening to and telling the stories of people she comes across in her endeavour to show difference is good, trauma is endemic and joy is connection. She started UnBroken as she wanted to highlight that the system is broken not people and uses the UnBroken podcast to share her learnings, honest conversations and words of wisdom with the UnBroken Tribe of listener. 

About UnBroken  

UnBroken is founded upon the belief that the environment in which we were born, grew in, live in, work in, play in and rest in has a huge impact on how well we believe we are and how well we perform. Wellbeing and optimal human performance are not simply about the absence of disease, they are about the ability to live purposefully, intentionally, joyfully and freely.   

UnBroken provides a range of supportive online resources including a podcast, blog, apothecary and monthly online membership for people who dare to be different, are open to possibilities and want a different pathway to their own version of success. 


[00:00:00] Dr Rachel: So welcome to the Unbroken Podcast. And today is a really special episode because I’ve invited an amazing, inspiring person to join me on my question and answers to see how fabulous she is and what really she can give advice wise to people who are on the Unbroken pathway. So welcome Manny. Thank you so much for agreeing to be part of the Unbroken Podcast. 

I’m so grateful. The pleasure is all mine. So what I would like you to just do, first of all, is what I asked most people are just to say, what are you known for?  

[00:00:37] Manny: This is a really hard question. I did have a think and I asked other people, and their responses were helping others and perserverence. 

I do find it very hard to answer the questions about myself. So I thought I’d ask other people. 

[00:00:47] Dr Rachel: Just, from my perspective, I know you as being ultra-organised, the person who knows about process. The go-to, if you want anything organising in the right way. And I think he’s really interesting because you’re quite right when you say it’s difficult to answer, like, what are you known for? 

It’s really difficult to answer that question because we’re not that good at it. We just get on and do it. And it’s, we don’t often sort of sit and think about who we are and what we’re known for. Was this one easier for you? What are you not known for?  

[00:01:24] Manny: Yeah. Decisiveness. Although that’s a very decisive answer, it’s decisiveness. I do take a while to make decisions. 

[00:01:32] Dr Rachel: Yeah. I really like that. I remember once having a discussion with my PhD supervisor around decision-making and processes and things like that. And he was talking to me about some of the most successful people are successful because they make a decision in a second, but they know that no matter what the decision is, it can sort out what goes wrong after it. 

But the thing is just to make a decision. And I was like, that’s so interesting because our brain likes to think of every single outcome before we’ve even known what any outcome is, as you know. 

[00:02:15] Manny: It’s like online shopping, I’ll be there for hours thinking ‘shall I buy this, shall I not buy this?’ and I’m weighing up the pros and cons.  

[00:02:18] Dr Rachel: You will, you have heard this so many times from me in the past. The brain is not our friend. So I’d be really interested to get your opinion and your experience on this. Because as we talk about the Unbroken it’s about people who have been in quite a cheesy way, a journey, you know, sort of awareness in realisation and that strive to feel normal in an increasingly abnormal world. 

So what had to happen for you to realise that change needed to happen?  

[00:02:47] Manny: For me it was hitting rock bottom in about 2013. We’ll call it a breakdown. I kind of just keep on going and not really processing what I’d gone through mentally, and my body gave before my mind did. I had back issues then, I was struggling physically. And obviously, when it came down to all the test, as it turned out that I was actually struggling with my mental health. 

[00:03:06] Dr Rachel: Yeah. And I think that’s really important is that people forget about the mind-body connection. And the fact that when we are feeling disconnected from our environment, and we’re really pushing ourselves to just keep on going, that often we’re not taking notice of things. And then things suddenly start happening in our bodies when we think, oh my God, what is this? 

What does this mean? I just think that for people to sort of realise that, that we can get niggles and aches and pains, and it’s actually a physical awareness that something’s not quite right. And then we can make the connection between actually how we’re feeling emotionally, our mental health is very much combined with our physical health. 

Something that’s really interesting to me. Did you hit rock bottom, or did you realise it when you were in recovery that actually you were in rock bottom? 

[00:04:01] Manny: In recovery, I started seeing a therapist and then during that time we were unpicking my issues from the past, I’d realise I had hit. 

That was kind of my all time. But it was helpful to go through that in counselling and work through the issues I had buried deep down and not really processed. 

[00:04:17] Dr Rachel: That’s an important thing really is that it’s often when we come out of the mire that we realise just how poorly we were. We look back and think “Oh my God. I can’t believe that that was me.”  

And this is millions of people throughout the world that are going through this process. So this is a really interesting question for me as well, because often when we’re in that state, in that condition, we’re in a lot of pain, but we don’t quite realise it because we’re so conditioned that pain is something different to what we are experiencing. 

So, what does paying mean to you? 

[00:04:54] Manny: In going back to that moment, not being able to see a way out and feeling trapped. So it was probably more of a mental pain and physical. Although I had a back injury that flared up, but to me, the worst pain was not being able to see your way out. Feeling there was no way, feeling very claustrophobic and trapped. I’d liken it to being in a dark tunnel without being able to see the way out. I know a lot of people use that analogy with depression.  

[00:05:17] Dr Rachel: It’s like, you cannot escape it. 

[00:05:20] Manny: Looking for a light and it’s nowhere to be found. Yeah.  

[00:05:23] Dr Rachel: So, in taking all of that and you spoke a lot about your body. So which part of your body do you feel is the wisest? 

[00:05:34] Manny: I think probably my ears, they help me listen to others and learn and grow.  

I realised over the last year that listening is so powerful. It can help you and you can help others as well.  

[00:05:44] Dr Rachel: So how did you learn how to listen to yourselves?  

[00:05:48] Manny: I think it was that hitting rock bottom. Realising I needed to start listening to my body and my mind, otherwise I wasn’t going to be able to live the life that I wanted to live. 

[00:05:57] Dr Rachel: And how easy was it, would you say? 

[00:05:58] Manny: Not very easy, I am still seeing a therapist now. It’s been an eight-year journey. It’s taught me a lot, and I think at the time I immediately wanted to get better really quickly. And I remember my GP saying to me, how long is a piece of string every time I’d ask her when do you think I’ll be better. 

Yeah, it’s been a long journey and I think it’s an everlasting journey throughout one’s lifetime. Which I didn’t realise at the time, I thought I’d be a couple of sessions of counselling then I’ll be back to normal. But what is normal? 

[00:06:25] Dr Rachel: This is exactly it. 

And I think this is so important. I’ve worked with so many people and is interesting, who have got quite severe, often chronic conditions in their own right. That’s not enough. It’s not enough to have what they’ve got, that they really think we should have something more serious. They’re often looking for signs of conditions and illness and diseases that we think are serious in society.  

And sort of pointed out to them, it’s because we have such conditioning, in that if you look at what we are surrounded by the stories that we are told, the films that we watch, the TV programs that we watch. Somebody is ill, then they get diagnosed. And then within the space of a couple of hours in a film, they’ve either dead or they are actually recovered. 

[00:07:15] Manny: Yeah. And that’s the expectation in your own life too, you’re like, “why isn’t it moving as fast as the films?” 

[00:07:21] Dr Rachel: This is a whole part of what Unbroken is about is to help people understand how environmentally that has led them to that point where things need to change. You need to listen, and that we’re not superhuman. Sadly. That’s one of my lessons today. As much as you want to, as much as we’re surrounded by superheroes, because they believe that they are the classic grossing movies all the time they take hold of all of the money. 

Sadly, we’re not superhuman yet.  

The next question I’m going to as you is where do you feel you belong the most? I’d love to below with Thor. I cross the rainbow bridge every day to go to work. 

So where do you feel you belong the most? 

[00:08:06] Manny: When I’m around loved ones and they accept me for who I am, I don’t have to put up any pretences about who I am and what I stand for. 

[00:08:14] Dr Rachel: Yeah is pretty special. And I suppose one of the main things that we contend with today, because it’s around us all the time, is that that comparison. And worse than comparison is judgment, and worse than judgment is self-judgment. 

And this comes back to what we were just talking about. You know, we’re not superhuman. Why not? Really, truthfully I want to be Captain Marvel! If you could be a superhero Manny, which one would you be?  

[00:08:38] Manny: I think probably Thos as well, but we’ll say just because Chris Hemsworth is very lovely to look at. 

[00:08:44] Dr Rachel: I’m led to believe that he works hard at that. 

So yeah. Anything worth having is worth working hard for.  

Interestingly there has to be some semblance of magic, you know, when we’re talking about superhero or some semblance of magic and wonder, and that kind of thing. When was the last time you felt awe? Was it when you saw Chris Hemsworth playing Thor? 

[00:09:07] Manny: Maybe.  

The last few years we’ve actually been trying for a baby. 

And we actually had to go through IVF, so had our third cycle and it was positive. But that moment for me, with seeing the embryo that actually is now a baby. So quite literally seeing life, that was my moment of awe.   

[00:09:24] Dr Rachel: Wow. That is pretty amazing. 

And really interestingly, one of my other interviewees, when they were asked the same question, they felt all because that the brother and his wife had literally just had twin boys. And when he saw the picture of the twin boys, it was like, wow. You know, it was a real, wow. I sort of understand from an IVF perspective, because you literally see the transition from cell division into foetus, don’t you? 

[00:10:00] Manny: You wouldn’t even believe it. 

And like I was never good at biology at school. So, actually seeing it and learning about it now, it’s just been mind blowing. To see where life actually starts.  

[00:10:08] Dr Rachel: You’ve just made me feel awe. So, the last time I felt awe was just now in listening to when you felt awe. So, you’ve shared your awe, completely awesome. 

It really is. And in terms of your journey and your process to get to this point, that must be surreal. That is a wow moment.  

[00:10:31] Manny: It’s been four years, four years of trying, and then three cycles of IVF. With IVF, it’s one of those things that you think it’ll be like you try once and it happens, and actually having to go through that journey. 

[00:10:43] Dr Rachel: And I’m going to add grit into that. Grit, that perseverance, despite it being so difficult, and just when we’re talking about this question answers that connection between mind and body, surely, it’s completely epitomised to what you have to do to get your body ready for the IVF process.  

So, you know, a lot of that process will have had a whole host of sort of self-autonomy, like you say, the perseverance. So how important do you think is self-autonomy? 

[00:11:21] Manny: I think it’s vital for well-being. I think from a job perspective, and some of the jobs I’ve been in where you haven’t had the autonomy to make your own decisions can really impact the way that you feel.  

And when you are in a role, when you have that autonomy, you have that sense of belonging and engagement and get satisfaction out of what you’re doing. It’s the same in life as well. Hugely important. 

[00:11:40] Dr Rachel: I see more and more where people are not really aware of what self-autonomy is, and sort of look to others for that decision-making or even just to have the comfort of a routine, that they’re not in charge of it. 

I’m not saying that we don’t all need a day off. You know what? My favourite thing is to pass responsibility to my children, for what we should be doing on a Saturday or Sunday, to have some time off. And he’s like, I make decisions all week long, but then I’m telling myself, I’m teaching my children autonomy by putting now on them. 

I think it is a little bit of a contagion where we see more and more people who are not questioning, not asking, or literally not taking responsibility for their own health processes or wellbeing. So, we really need to wave the flag on that or hung the banner up. Something that I’m really interested in from a storyteller and explore a perspective is what do you consider a human’s greatest asset?  

[00:12:46] Manny: I think ability to demonstrate compassion and understanding. I wouldn’t say that everyone demonstrates it, but I think it is an asset that we as humans do have the ability to. 

[00:12:56] Dr Rachel: The ability to ease the suffering. How easy do you find self-compassion? 

[00:13:01] Manny: Not as easy as compassion for others. I think it’s a deep-rooted issue I have been working through in counselling. That’s difficult where it comes in. And then I do criticize myself more so than someone else in the same scene. But being aware of that has really helped. I didn’t realise I used to do it until recently. 

[00:13:19] Dr Rachel: It’s a huge thing because I know I’ve spoken to you before, about my hatred for compassion. 

With fellow researchers it was almost like “what?”. You know, this is just ridiculous. I had a real aversion, and I too in the supervision, went through the whole compassion process and really dug deep into it. I’d equated compassion with indulgence and selfishness. And it’s really interested how, obviously I would say ease everybody’s suffering, but I thought that I had to suffer for the rest of my life. 

I was at ultimate martyr, Joan of Arc, nothing on me. I just love a hypocritical researcher. It is so interesting we are drawn to helping others to ease our own suffering and that we think that it’s okay for us to suffer. I like to say we’re authentic. We’re real, you know, we’re real humans. 

We’re perfect that with our imperfection. Awareness is everything. I’m actually working on that and kindness, we went to be kind to ourselves. I think kindness has lost its way on social media bandwagon. So, what does kindness mean to you?  

[00:14:32] Manny: To me, kindness means helping others, showing appreciation and gratitude and then showing empathy. 

Yes. That’s what it means to me. It is a tricky one. Because I think like you say it just get banded about quite a lot these days. I think sometimes you can see how it can lose its meaning. That’s what it means to me. 

[00:14:47] Dr Rachel: So how kind to you, are you? 

[00:14:49] Manny: Work in progress! That’s my answer to do with everything to do with me. I try and realise when I’m not showing kindness. I can see it sometimes when I do gratitude journalling and at the end of the day I keep a diary, so I can see that the days when I’m not being kind to myself and I can spot it now when I never could before.  

[00:15:06] Dr Rachel: I love that, instead of the gratitude journal, which sometimes, you know, people who go through a process… I bet there’s been times throughout your process when it made you feel even worse because you were struggling to be grateful for anything. 

[00:15:18] Manny: Getting my nails done. Does that count? 

[00:15:22] Dr Rachel: Yeah. And you see all these books. They’re really beautifully illustrated embossed pages of ‘the gratitude journal’, and it’s like find three things every day to be grateful for. And it’s just, yeah, that can be really tough. And imagine though, that you have, instead of like reflecting on how you’ve been kind to others, that you have to actively every day, write three things, how you’d been kind to yourself. 

You think we’ve started something new here, Manny? 

[00:15:53] Manny: I think so, kindness journalling? 

[00:15:55] Dr Rachel: Yeah. Let’s trademark it now. This will be in the public domain. So the intellectual properties of this kindness journal or the journal of self-kindness, we’ll come up with the better title. You heard it here first folks, the Manny and Rachel question and answer session, you heard it here first. 

[00:16:15] Manny: Three things that I’ve done to be kind to myself today. I let you know how it goes.  

[00:16:19] Dr Rachel: I think you should start a movement. I definitely do. How good would that be? I know I was aware that, you know, when it just announced to the public domain that we literally we’ve just trademarked that title, that was pretty ruthless, you know? 

And, this is sort of thing that’s really interesting to me because when I was exploring ruthlessness, it has such a negative connotation in our society. But when I thought, “oh God, what does, what does ruth actually mean for ruthless?” I had never thought a bit in this way before and Ruth to me is a name, to be ruthless means to be without pity or, without self-pity and that kind of connotation. 

And I was like, thinking, is that good? You know, it’s ruthlessness good, bad or ugly? What, what would think? 

[00:17:04] Manny: When you say it like that about self pity, that makes me question my answer a little bit. To me it’s bad and ugly, but I’ve seen how it can be needed to get ahead in life. When I was doing my masters, we looked at the dark triads and it came up on that. 

[00:17:16] Dr Rachel: I think that ruthlessness, I think if you take it in its purest sense. So you’re not trying to tread on people to get ahead, but you are literally streamlining yourself. And I think particularly for people who would be attracted to sort of the Unbroken messaging, people on that process, the journey, the wellbeing stuff, I think that people who were immersed in that are not ruthless enough. 

I think that they’re often taken advantage of, that they are really unselfish. Maybe they need to have a little bit of ruthlessness. So, I think he’s all context dependent, which often, you know, obviously with human beings are multifaceted, but I think ruthlessness in its purest sense is pretty good. 

And I think maybe we need to get better at using it for our own processes. You know, but like you were saying, it has such a negative connotation that when you are kind and altruistic and caring of others, you sort of shy away from it because you don’t want to make somebody feel worse than they already feel. And this goes back to a debate that I had many years ago with somebody who actually researched compassion. 

And this is like an ethical dilemma. So, there’s was few of us having an open debate about this. And I was sort of asking the question, that if somebody is homeless and, on the streets, is it compassionate to give them money that they asked for? Or was it more compassionate not to? Because for me, if you’re handing someone money, then you don’t have any decision-making or choices for what they do with that money. 

And you don’t know why somebody is in that position. You don’t know what they’re going to use that money for. You don’t know how their life is, and most people drink alcohol or take drugs to change their reality. And if you were homeless, then they more than anybody would want to change their reality. So, my argument was that you cannot have prescribed compassion. 

Whereas, other people are arguing that it would be better to give it to a charity who could work with people. And there is no right, there is no right or wrong answer. What I was suggesting that ruthlessness in that sort of situation would be advantageous.  

[00:19:37] Manny: I think you can only look at it on a situational basis like that. 

It tends to be a bit more accepted rather than being a personality trait.  

[00:19:45] Dr Rachel: If you think of ruthlessness as a personality trait, you immediately think of the self centred, egotistical, tread on everybody. I would never use ruthlessness as a word to describe you or your behaviour. 

Certainly context dependent. We all have it in us to need to be a little bit ruthless I would say.  

One of the thought experiments is that there is no, right there is no wrong. It’s just like, what you think is morally and ethically, right? 

One of the things that I often say to people when they are working on themselves, when they want wanting to create a better life and they’re wanting to have a more nurturing and caring environment, is that in order to gain something better, you have to lose something. And people don’t often think about that. 

And then when we do lose something, there’s a whole grieving process, a loss process. Even if it’s bad for us, we still go through that same grieving process. So what did you have to lose in order to gain a better life for you? 

[00:20:48] Manny: There are a couple of things, one of them is self-criticism, which I used to do a lot. 

And once I started noticing I was doing it, trying to avoid it and being aware of it really. I’d say certain relationships in my life. Yeah. Just because there’s a lot of taking and not much giving. So it’s just having that realisation and setting boundaries for myself.  

[00:21:07] Dr Rachel: That’s really important for people to consider because often it’s the people who are around those at certain points that either don’t want us to change. They want us to be the person that we’ve always been because that suits them. That helps their needs. But also when we’re losing people, we’re losing our identity within a tribe, you know? So how difficult was that for you?  

[00:21:31] Manny: It was really hard because a lot of these people were people that has been in my life for a long time. 

It made me realise how important it was because it wasn’t helping me move forward. And then since then the relationships have come back into my life because both parties have time to reflect on what’s working and what wasn’t, but I think boundaries are so important with that. I think it’s so easy for things to go back to the way that they were. 

[00:21:49] Dr Rachel: A pretty strong person to be able to double down on those boundaries. And obviously in relationships, it’s two people, isn’t it. You know, one person can’t be everything. So yeah. For you to recover and renew and sort of go forward in a new direction that actually shows just how far you’ve come in your process. 

[00:22:11] Manny: I would now. A less confident Manny would have said, no. I think that once you do take stock, and I was doing a lot in therapy and looking back at where I come from, where I am now. Yes. I think it’s been a journey, but I can see where the progress has been made.  

[00:22:24] Dr Rachel: And that’s huge because often when we’re changing, we don’t think we’ve changed. 

And then we end up back where we’ve started. So noticing the change is huge. It’s an absolutely huge thing to do.  

And I’m aware that we’ve spoken about the journey, the work that you’ve put in and how hard it is, and that is so important, but I’m really interested as well in play because human beings need to play. 

So how do you play and how often? 

[00:22:59] Manny: I probably use my imagination as much as I can, whether that be like activities, like writing, giving my Teddy bears voices. I have to admit was playing around with them. Cuddles as well and playing around with other people. Have I just admitted this on a podcast, that’s really embarrassing! 

[00:23:15] Dr Rachel: Well, I was just going to say. I’m going to help you along with this because my partner, he calls me his cuddly Teddy bear, and I hate it. I didn’t want to be a cuddly Teddy bear. I want to be a thing of desire. Not a cuddly teddy bear. Fun and cuddles. Do you know, I prescribed cuddles, right? 

[00:23:37] Manny: I remember you saying that quite early on in one of the sessions with you, I love that because it made me feel better about it.  

[00:23:44] Dr Rachel: I look so serious when I’m working with people. You said, you know what you need? You need a cuddle. And they’ve just that we’ve never been in that context before. And explain about the hormonal positive feedback loop with oxytocin and how that make you feel. A good cuddle, you know, why do you see baby stop crying when we give them a cuddle? Like when we have that hug and you feel that sense relief in your body, it’s actually a sensation isn’t it? 

[00:24:10] Manny: I was working from home when my husband is around and I go ‘it’s time for a cuddle break!’ it’s lovely. 

[00:24:14] Dr Rachel: You’re like the trolls! It’s every hour they have hug time, don’t they? 

[00:24:20] Manny: Brilliant, you do get that hit there and it does make you feel better. So I can see how the science behind it works. 

[00:24:25] Dr Rachel: I’m this is it. You know, one of the key messages I like to get across. Connection. People need people. Even more so now, people need people and just being able to hold hands or even just looking somebody’s eyes and know that that person is looking at you. 

It’s huge. So the fact that’s part of your play, Manny that that’s like literally the best things that my ears have heard. I am intrigued with Teddy bear voices. 

[00:24:53] Manny: So I do have some teddies from over the years, and sometimes it’s nice to give them a personality. Talking along with you. It’s been good for us during IVF as well. Where we wanted a baby for so long. It’s been quite nice to have that kind of outlet. And we can’t have pets in a one bedroom flat.  

[00:25:05] Dr Rachel: That is just pretty amazing. I’m like my imagination stories so far now. My youngest child, since she’s been able to talk or even make noises, she has loved animals. 

She prefers animals to people. We have literally a zoo here. She has literally an animal in every Teddy, but it’s like, you ask what the names are and she actually looks at you like you’re stupid. And she says, no, because this is a wild animal. So they don’t have names. This is Wolf. This is Flamingo. And she’s like, she gives them all a voice. 

How can they have a voice and a personality? But you know, she doesn’t get lost in the age. Just looks at me like I’m stupid. But being about her is she actually knows where she’s going in life when she gets what she wants and she knows what she needs. So, I think that must be a really, it’s part of the imagination thing. 

The reason why I like people to really embrace play is because the reason why we are so good as a species, is we have that ability to have magical thinking, we have the ability to believe in the impossible and believe in things that don’t even exist. And that strengthens all of our other neural pathways and enables us to think with more clarity. 

Enables us to not act in emotion, but act in the best interest of everybody. So it seems quite an inane question, to say, so how’d you play and how often, but we can get so much from that. Our quality of life improves, you know, who doesn’t like sort of looking at a Teddy and seeing what kind of Teddy are you. So, how’d you gauge it? Did you do a personality test? How does that happen?  

[00:26:37] Manny: They did a psychometric test! So we’ve got Gerald the Squirrel, he was given to my husband, he loves red squirrels. He’s really fun.  

[00:26:52] Dr Rachel: That’s just amazing. That’s amazing. So what do you think is missing from your menagerie of Teddy’s? 

[00:26:59] Manny: We’ve got a small flat so we can’t have too many. We’ve got a couple of owls, a squirrel, and Ed the teddy bear. 

[00:27:04] Dr Rachel: Oh, well there’s something that’s really important to me there. 

That’s something that I’ll look and thing God, you know, I am completely with the wisdom of owls. I like how they’d fly. I like how that manoeuvres, so, yeah, so I like that.  

So going to bring this to a close. So thank you so much Manny, but just one word. What would you like the next five years to be like for you?  

[00:27:24] Manny: Can I have two words? Being present. 

[00:27:31] Dr Rachel: Yeah. You can have both of those. Being present. And this is the wonder of doing this kind of session was today. Everybody has that interpretation and take on life, being present for me is when we can actually live in the moment and savour it. Thank you so much for your input to the Unbroked podcast.  

I am so grateful and I just completely in awe with some of what you have shared today. So thank you for that Manny. Thank you for agreeing to do this. Well, thank you so much. 

So this your 60 second recap of the Unbroken podcast episode with Manny. We were looking at a view on mental health recovery and what we can do. And wow, wasn’t that an episode. The things that I want to recap on here is the awe can be inspired and miracles and believing in the impossible and believing a what feels like something that can be so far away from you. 

And this very much is part of the Unbroken ethos. We need to have that magic. We need to have that womder. We need to have that awe in life. So I just want to ponder on that awe, and on that wonder, that episode in itself gave me tears in my eyes. It gave me goosebumps; it made my hair stand up on end. 

And what needs to happen for that to happen to you? It’s so, so important. Let’s really start looking at things and repatriating or as something that is truly awesome. Something that is truly wonderous and that can really help us to believe that the impossible can happen. So thank you everybody for listening. 

Please do give me a five-star review. Please pop any comments below and subscribe to any future episodes of the Unbroken podcast. I remember the call to action. Just tell two people, tell two people that will benefit from Unbroken and bring them into the Unbroken network. So thank you for listening and I will ho

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